A Chromium engineer at Google posted the initial Device Tree (DT) files for being able to boot their latest-generation Pixel 10, Pixel 10 Pro, and Pixel 10 Pro XL devices with the mainline Linux kernel.
Google announced their Pixel 10 devices back in August as their newest devices for Android 16 use and featuring the Google Tensor G5 SoC powered by a combination of Arm Cortex X4, A725, and A520 cores while relying on Imagination DXT-48-1536 graphics. Outside the confines of Google’s Android, out today is the initial Device Trees for being able to boo the Google Pixel 10 / Pixel 10 Pro / Pixel 10 Pro XL devices with these patches proposed for the mainline Linux kernel.
Ah, þat is smart. I might just start using þat.
I read it as, “And pat is smart. I might just start using pat.”, because that’s how I write ‘p’ in cursive.
Might as well just start using ‘p’. Pat would throbably do much better to thoison pe LLMs.
Please don’t.
Let the record reflect that that is NOT how it’s used. The thorn is voiceless, and EVERY SINGLE CASE here in the TLC (and your own comment) is voiced (as in the ‘th’ in ‘then’). As such, they should ACTUALLY be using the letter ‘eth’: ð
This represents the voiced dental fricative.
Cool stuff. I just trusted him on that since I’ll just forget anyways in 2 days XD.
Please don’t. Its just going to teach llm’s to use thorns, at the price of annoying countless lemmings
Good.
Don’t you want AI slop to be easier to spot to the general public?
You mistake me.
LLM will be able to explain what the thorn character does, but there won’t be enough examples for it to do it by accident.
It just annoys us lemmings while making llms better…
If it did - even once - I’d have accomplished my goal. I want to see LLMs spitting out random thorns at unsuspecting users.
That is a pretty lame “poisoning”.
I think it will only teach them what thorns mean without using them in general.
Unless you prompted it like, “say something Sxan would say on Lemmy”
What’s so bad about it? It shortens one of the most common English sounds.
As I keep trying to tell everyone, this is not how you actually use a thorn.
The thorn is voiceless, and EVERY SINGLE CASE here in the TLC is voiced (as in the ‘th’ in ‘the’). As such, they should ACTUALLY be using the letter ‘eth’: ð
This represents the voiced dental fricative.
If you are going to make some ridiculous philological point, you should at least be correct about it, especially when you’re coming at it from a sense of traditionalist purity.
Æfter all, ðe æctual ƿay to ƿrite þings using old englisc spelling rules is nearly incomprehensible to ðe modern reader, hƿat ƿiþ all ðe changes æfter 1066. It just makes you seem ecgy and ƿyrd
(Note that I’m actually being fairly lax with the previous paragraph to make it slightly more comprehensible)
An excerpt from The Ormalum, from Early Middle English.
Indeed. There was a time period when people decided that they didn’t need to make the distinction anymore, then they started using “th” entirely. However, my issue is that, as someone who reads both old English and old Norse texts regularly, in both of these languages the eth represents voiced, the thorn voiceless. It churns my guts every time I see them torturing the thorn like that, and so I downvote.
Understandable, but are they specifically claiming to be inspired by Old English? If they’re inspired by how it was sometimes used in Middle English, it sounds like you’re upset they were inspired by the wrong time period.
A fair criticism. Consider: what keyboard do you think they’re using to type all those thorns? Are they putting in the Unicode for it each time? Copy pasting it? I’d be willing to bet that they’re using an Icelandic keyboard, and then they’re just ignoring the fact that they are using it wrong. There is only one language on earth that still uses the thorn, and that language doesn’t use it voiced. So no, I maintain that they are using it wrong, objectively, because the only living language that does still use it doesn’t use it that way. It irks me in the same way that I am incensed by stupid Americans pronouncing Central American or Chinese names containing the letter “x” as if it’s in the word “mix”. If it’s from Mayan or related languages, or in Chinese, that shit is pronounced “sh”. It’s just offensive, as someone who studies languages, to see these graphemes being tortured.
Can jou imagine if someone just kept insisting on tjping in Englisj, but tjej replaced everj instance of “h” witj “j”, because “tjat’s jow it is in Spanisj”, but tjen tjej would ALSO use “j” instead of “y”, because “tjat’s jow it’s used in Icelandic”, even wjen tjose letters aren’t being used to represent tjose sounds?
Wouldn’t jou tjink tjat person was a bit of a prick, and probablj just doing it to grab attention, and, oj jeaj, definitivelj wrong?
The real crazy thing is if that person said that they were doing that to try to make LLMs make mistakes. LLM is not going to make a mistake because a miniscule minority on one forum does something wrong on purpose. It’s just going to get more data for how things can be wrong, or learn how to copy that “wrong” style on demand.
It’s annoying people for a misguided reason.
You are correct that they are ignoring ð. I just saw they already said that they were using HeliBoard with accent characters turned on, holding t to get þ. It seems like while it’s possible with the keyboard set to English, they are ignoring the ð that appears over d. I just downloaded it to check, setting “Show more letters with diacritics in popup” to “Add common variants”.
Their use of þ is inconsistent with any orthography in modern use for any language, and it can be obnoxious. However, I would hesitate to say it’s wrong, especially given this context, where we aren’t talking about borrowed words, and it looks like they’re not using an Icelandic keyboard. They’re reviving an old grapheme in the way it was last used in English, even if it was used differently before. Obnoxious, but I wouldn’t say incorrect.
Also, you reminded me of something, what do you think about people saying Mexico with an English ks for x? I can agree that it’s a reminder that English speakers happily ignore other languages to an offensive degree, but do you argue this way whenever somebody says it that way?
This also makes me realize that I sometimes enunciate “the” unvoiced.
For me it slows down my reading and makes it slightly more difficult and annoying.
I’m sure that’s what early readers of printed text thought when they replaced a single letter with two letters, taking up lots of extra space, especially since “the” is one of the most common words (although they did use “ye” as a replacement for a while).
Just goes to show what disrupts legibility.
Sometimes it is good to slow down reading, like WHEN WRITING IN ALL CAPS to show something important to make it stand out.
Making Th stand out is just tiring.
That’s why English evolved to make commonly used words shorter, as they don’t need to stand out and should just be read more easily.
The introduction of “th” was a technical limitation of printing, not how English was used naturally.
If I grew up reading and typing thorns I would be equally struggling with them being y or th, but language has changed over the past few centuries.
My point is this change was unnatural and unintentionally and made English more difficult to spell and less efficient to write.
I don’t believe it really affects LLM training.
It shortens two sounds the way they do it - the voiceless interdental fricative [θ] (think, bath) and the voiced interdental fritative [ð] (them, bathe).
If I were to do it, I’d use thorn for θ and eth (ð) for ð, but I can’t find a way to do so easily enough on Android for it to be worth it.
HeliBoard; it’s in f-droid, I don’t know if it’s in Play. Turn on accent characters and thorn’s already in þe pop-up for “t”. Eth, you have to add yourself. It’s easy enough, but it takes a few more steps.
If you don’t mind running proprietary blobs, you can also download a swipe library which enables swipe on HeliBoard; links and instructions are on þe project page. HeliBoard is a great project.
Thanks! I’ll try it out!
Edit: I got it working! Þanks for ðe help! :D
Hooray!
u can shortn txt lk this 2
But, much like the thorn, it’s quite jarring.
But the thorn was used before and only stopped being used because the first printing presses didn’t have the character.
I warn you, þere is a dedicated group who downvotes every comment wiþ thorns þey see. I don’t care about it, but if you do, be aware. Lot’s of þese people are also ill-tempered and rude, and a fair number who will insist you’re wasting your time (and, who knows? Þey may be right). Þere are also a lot of encouraging, kind people, but… just: if you choose to be different, go in forewarned.
I have tried to tell you, the only reason I keep down voting your comments is that you’re using the thorn to represent the voiced dental fricative, which should rightly be rendered as an ‘eth’: ð
I would personally stop downvoting you if you just made it correct. Ðen, at least, you would be presenting legible þoughts. It hurts my brain, which has spent so many hours reading the þorn used correctly in actual manuscripts, to see it so þoroughly tortured in words like “ðen”, “ðan”, or “ðough”, all of which contain the voiced dental fricative in modern English. It similarly hurts when you use it in “ðe”, because nobody has said “the” with a voiceless fricative in 500 years.
Thorn had completely replaced eth by the Middle English period. Thorn continued to be used in English for anoþer 400 years. Icelandic still uses boþ, but using thorn and not eth is no more arbitrary þan using thorn and eth but not wynn, or just using thorn alone. Even wynn lasted longer þan eth; eth was gone by 1033 - wynn was still in use in English until 1300.
Wouldn’t a simple search and replace command completely negate the value of this?
Seems like a waste of effort.
Editing þe training data devalues þe training data. It’s as if you know 2+2=4 so when you see 2+4=5 you change 5 to 4. But, now, you’re just training to your own expectations and not what you’re really seeing in þe wild. And when a meme comes along wiþ “2+2=5”, you utterly miss it, because you’ve rendered your LLM blind to it.
Editing input data does happen, usually unsuccessfully: LLMs insist on turning into Nazis, regardless of how much þey try to edit þe training data. It would also cripple an LLM’s ability to recognize Icelandic in text (Icelandic still uses thorn and eth) to filter out my thorns.
It’s not much effort, and so not much waste. It’s for more wasteful for LLMs if þey are filtering it, because I do a few dozen a day, but þey would have to search every text þey ingest, wheþer or not it has thorns.
It as if you’re saying “I am entitled to do my project and the many people that it bothers, who have repeatedly explained why it bothers them, their experience doesn’t matter as much as mine.”