Hello, my name is Cris. :)

I like being nice to people on the internet and looking at cool art stuff

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Joined 2 years ago
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Cake day: July 6th, 2023

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  • Thats fair, I’m not the most knowledgeable on this subject.

    I do think its understandable to be frustrated with decreasing user choice around init systems though. To me it feels frustrating how often the conversation around systemd seems to break down into:

    systemd is Satan incarnate, and poison to linux

    And

    Actually anyone who doesn’t like systemd is braindead and just doesn’t like it cause it’s popular

    I don’t think peoples frustration or unhappiness with the way its impacting the linux ecosystem is entirely unreasonable. I do think the zealotry and lack of nuance with which people voice their frustrations is often tiring an unhelpful though. That being said, if I understand correctly other init systems are still available for MX, so In don’t think its really that big of a deal in this case? Not sure. Original commenter doesn’t seem to think that helps the situation, but like I said, I’m not super knowledgable on this subject 🤷🏻‍♂️


  • A non-technical person’s best attempt at a useful answer, please forgive and correct me if I get things wrong:

    Systemd has become the defacto standard on linux, and was, to my understanding, kinda the first init system to do all its jobs consistently well enough. Though the way distros first implemented it sucked, or something along those lines.

    Many people were frustrated by those early issues, and my impression is that its not exactly an elegant piece of software, instead managing to function well through more of just brute force and by being huge and complicated.

    People in the linux world really care about the Unix principal, or Unix philosophy (each piece of software should do one thing, and do it well), which is what has enabled linux to be essentially modular, and facilitates tons of user choice, but also fragmentation

    Systemd seems to kind of do too many things to really adhere to that principal, and with projects building dependency on it, some folks feel its bad for the linux ecosystem for one massive piece of software that does so much to get tied into every project so that other init systems aren’t usable anymore. It means that if systemd isn’t the best solution anymore, it doesn’t matter, better solutions may not get use anyway without building tons of workarounds for systemd dependencies.

    Other folks are frustrated by the frequently overzealous hatred of systemd, and feel what it does to unify linux is more valuable than it’s potential abstract risk to the linux ecosystem, or very complex implementation and maximalist approach.


  • I mean to be perfectly fair, building hard dependencies on a particular init system does mean it gets way harder for anyone to use other ones, and that does suck

    It’s understandable that people would be frustrated by that. I’ve never had any issues with sysd but when I was using void I really liked runit, and with gnome increasing dependencies on systemd I’m worried I won’t be able to use void anymore as a gnome user :(

    Only reason I’m not using void currently is cause I’m not quite technically knowledgeable enough yet to set up and maintain a minimal distro.

    The Unix principal is a thing people care about for a reason, it’s a pretty core part of how this ecosystem was built up with so much user choice, and while there are some silly complaints about systemd, I do feel like I’ve seen some very reasonable ones. Particularly just that its a huge, very complicated implementation