My point was simply that humans have been doing slavery for…pretty much as long as we have records. And that is in conflict with your view.
You said:
You know that humans lived in communal societies for a long fuckin time before all the bullshit we know today, right?
So what I’m saying is that for pretty much all of recorded human history we have documented proof that humans enslaved each other. Ie not communal. Slaveholding.
You then implied the ills of today’s society are tied to capitalism, an invention which came several tens of thousands of years after we invented slavery. Ie humans were shit to each other and abused each other in horrible ways long in advance of capitalism coming onto the scene.
There may not be capitalism in human nature, but enslaving people we view ourselves as being inferior to us is pretty much as human as apple pie.
When you look at why people did the enslaving you will inevitably find someone who is creating hierarchies by abusing some facet of the material conditions of the time. Slavery is not a part of human nature.
So you will always find a person who is doing the enslaving but enslaving isn’t human nature? I dont know how to follow that logic.
Let’s take another class of slaves: domesticated animals. We’ve been doing that for a looooong time. We like them, but we don’t consider them our equals and will in general readily murder them or sacrifice them to meet our needs. Most of what you eat has about the intelligence of a toddler. Cats and dogs we enslave as our emotional support are also intelligent creatures.
Since resources are always finite all creatures default to exploitation as a survival system. Humans are good at making up stories for why it’s ok actually, but that doesn’t mean it is.
Finding an exception to the rule and then claiming that exception is the rule is kinda wild. The vast vast vast vast majority of human beings do NOT engage in exploitation of each other. As such I do not believe exploitation is a part of human nature but is rather a manifestation of anti social behavior intersecting with the material conditions of the time. Humans are egalitarian and communal by nature, things that pull us from that are aberrations to our nature not pillars of it.
At this point it sounds like you’re saying “I don’t have proof but under everything I think people are Good and every counter example is actually something else.”
I don’t think this can be argued against because it’s just a closely held belief. That is, you can’t logic someone out of a belief they didn’t logic themselves into. Therefore I am stopping here.
Well… Mine has the evidence of history. You rejected history and called pretty much every historical figure ever an outlier. I don’t know what to do with that. (Besides move on with my life)
My point was simply that humans have been doing slavery for…pretty much as long as we have records. And that is in conflict with your view.
You said:
So what I’m saying is that for pretty much all of recorded human history we have documented proof that humans enslaved each other. Ie not communal. Slaveholding.
You then implied the ills of today’s society are tied to capitalism, an invention which came several tens of thousands of years after we invented slavery. Ie humans were shit to each other and abused each other in horrible ways long in advance of capitalism coming onto the scene.
There may not be capitalism in human nature, but enslaving people we view ourselves as being inferior to us is pretty much as human as apple pie.
Hopefully this makes more sense.
When you look at why people did the enslaving you will inevitably find someone who is creating hierarchies by abusing some facet of the material conditions of the time. Slavery is not a part of human nature.
So you will always find a person who is doing the enslaving but enslaving isn’t human nature? I dont know how to follow that logic.
Let’s take another class of slaves: domesticated animals. We’ve been doing that for a looooong time. We like them, but we don’t consider them our equals and will in general readily murder them or sacrifice them to meet our needs. Most of what you eat has about the intelligence of a toddler. Cats and dogs we enslave as our emotional support are also intelligent creatures.
Since resources are always finite all creatures default to exploitation as a survival system. Humans are good at making up stories for why it’s ok actually, but that doesn’t mean it is.
Finding an exception to the rule and then claiming that exception is the rule is kinda wild. The vast vast vast vast majority of human beings do NOT engage in exploitation of each other. As such I do not believe exploitation is a part of human nature but is rather a manifestation of anti social behavior intersecting with the material conditions of the time. Humans are egalitarian and communal by nature, things that pull us from that are aberrations to our nature not pillars of it.
At this point it sounds like you’re saying “I don’t have proof but under everything I think people are Good and every counter example is actually something else.”
I don’t think this can be argued against because it’s just a closely held belief. That is, you can’t logic someone out of a belief they didn’t logic themselves into. Therefore I am stopping here.
My man we are both arguing opinions here lol you dont get to pretend like your opinion is correct because you like your logic and I don’t lol
We just disagree on this its not as deep as you’re trying to make it out to be with this weird self aggrandizing attitude.
Well… Mine has the evidence of history. You rejected history and called pretty much every historical figure ever an outlier. I don’t know what to do with that. (Besides move on with my life)
That’s not what I did at all but that’s a fun way to characterize it.