Communism is both a mode of production, and a process. Socialist countries run by communist parties are properly communist in that they are building communism in the real world. This is why Marx states in The German Ideology that
Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.
The point isn’t that socialist countries would be in that higher mode of production if they weren’t under siege, or that they aren’t sufficiently communist, but that they must build up state power to resist this siege, and as a consequence this state power sometimes commits excesses and mistakes.
Yes, you do. You have agreed to all the relevant points for my argument.
In my argument, I made it very clear that I don’t care whether or not you want to see these nation as communist or not, just wanted to note that the arguments would start there.
But instead, my argument is that total harm cause is a flawed method because as you stated yourself and I hope you agree with yourself, the socialist state were forced into more state power to protect themselves. That paranoia and that power together cause much of the harm. Both wouldn’t have existed if they weren’t under siege, which again is what you claim. So looking at the harm of socialism/communism and comparing it with capitalism, acts like the harm of socialism wasn’t partly caused by capitalism as well. So that comparison sucks and the argument fails.
And I am fairly certain, you agree with all of this, while you might dislike the words that I used.
This community likes to remind everyone that no communist country was allowed to just be communists in peace. So there was no “proper” communist country.
Communism is both a mode of production, and a process. Socialist countries run by communist parties are properly communist in that they are building communism in the real world. This is why Marx states in The German Ideology that
The point isn’t that socialist countries would be in that higher mode of production if they weren’t under siege, or that they aren’t sufficiently communist, but that they must build up state power to resist this siege, and as a consequence this state power sometimes commits excesses and mistakes.
So you agree with me. Great. Good conversation.
No?
Yes, you do. You have agreed to all the relevant points for my argument.
In my argument, I made it very clear that I don’t care whether or not you want to see these nation as communist or not, just wanted to note that the arguments would start there.
But instead, my argument is that total harm cause is a flawed method because as you stated yourself and I hope you agree with yourself, the socialist state were forced into more state power to protect themselves. That paranoia and that power together cause much of the harm. Both wouldn’t have existed if they weren’t under siege, which again is what you claim. So looking at the harm of socialism/communism and comparing it with capitalism, acts like the harm of socialism wasn’t partly caused by capitalism as well. So that comparison sucks and the argument fails.
And I am fairly certain, you agree with all of this, while you might dislike the words that I used.
I was arguing against this point in particular.