reader beware.
lots of muskrats and thielologists shitting in this post.
Seen a lot of half baked arguments.
I’ve been in the area and met this cat. First off, this cat started as a stray, and found its way to the corner store that took it in and adopted it for all intents and purposes. Its lived in the same spot for many years, and had always been an exceptionally chill cat. Painting him as a typical outdoor cat is disingenuous and uninformed.
KitKat has been safe and sound for so long without any issues. There’s gotta be literally millions of cars that have driven past in his residency on 16th in the Mission district of SF. And the only time he gets hit is by a waymo? All these human drivers, so many of them absolute shit, and never an occurrence? This cat isn’t sprinting the neighborhood, crossing streets, or hunting for prey; its docile, loves pets, and knows there’s endless food at the liquor store that provides all his needs. He wasn’t your typical outdoor cat that runs from everyone and twitches at unknown sounds; this was an urban dwelling cat that’s been prospering for years.
Waymo promotes and brags to riders how many cameras are inside and out of the car. But it so easily hit something that could fuck the car up if it wasn’t soft squishy flesh. Were animals and small children not in any of its test scenarios? Is it infeasble to install cameras where a typical driver couldn’t usually see?
Not to mention the absolutely rude response waymo has had to this event. Instead of apologizing and pledging improvements and retribution to killing a valued community member; they victim-blamed the dead cat, said they didn’t do anything wrong, and said nothing of mitigating future scenarios.
There’s more I can say about the company and its typical ownership, but I want to keep this to the slaughter at hand and their complete lack of consciousness. Waymo doesn’t care about you or anything that it kills. Once again, its about the bottom line and whatever it can do to turn profit.
Obviously accidents happen, but its the reaction that can truly matter in those cases. They’ve shown that causing great harm in a community means nothing to them. And this is in obvious and outspoken situations. What about the less obvious ways? Whether that be job loss, economic factors, environmental concerns, or blatant safety on our streets. If they’re forced, they’ll make a bullshit apology (aka recognition of events) and then focus on moving forward without addressing people’s grief and anger.
Fuck waymo, fuck their response especially, and fuck anyone saying this cat deserved it by being a lazy sidewalk-laying pillar of joy in the neighborhood.
Rest in Peace KitKat. The community will always love you and remember you for always brightening our days in this endlessly threatening world. The only thing that killed you was the ruthless drive for profit. Your memory will live on in the hearts of many. And as a focal point that citizens must stop allowing corporations from plowing down their neighbors, their voice, and their sunshine in a day’s walk to the store.
3:
What I’ve learned working at a startup in stealth mode and having larger projects in the back lot behind the building, is that those cars also do not respect ‘no trespassing’ signs and waymo will wait until it gets to the litigious point to bother to fix their routing.
when the LA riots happened a few months ago and they were torching waymo cars i was confused why they would do that, now im ok with thoese cars being torched. fuck waymo, RIP kitkat
Waymo/Google has aligned itself with Trump and there are a lot of cameras on those cars. I suspect that was a reason back then. Now there’s more.
I had a cat who went outside every day, never once got hit by a human driver until it happened.
nonsense, that your cat was missed by millions of drivers every day that drive down your streets, to think it would be hit by a human boggles the mind. and you don’t even seem to be broken up about the slaughter!
Don’t want your cat to get hit by a car keep it inside.
That wasn’t anyone’s cat, though. It was a denizen of the neighborhood with no owner. The point you’re trying to make has no target.
Yet another reason to despise AI. Animals deserve to be safe too. We’ve already taken so much from them as it is.
as the comment chain below highlights, autonomous driving AI is completely different from LLMs. Computer vision and control theory have made big improvements because of machine learning, do you despise this too?
It is a bit frustrating how these different technologies are bunched under the same inaccurate moniker.
Then keep the car inside. Outdoor cats are not safe and get killed by cars animals.
Yes, keep the car inside.
Please, keep your car in their car bedroom at all times.
Ai has a proven track record of causing less accidents, and killing far fewer animals per km traveled than the average driver.
92% fewer accidents involving animals than the average human.
Ai doesn’t drink, get distracted, or smoke meth like the ml mods.
Public transportation does this too and isn’t controlled by some company trying to make graphs go up
There are also a lot of people out there that will intentionally swerve to hit an animal. Mark Rober made a video a long time ago where 6% of drivers went out of their way to hit animals that were just chilling on the shoulder.
fucked up that people do that.
And have a nice habit of being turned off before the accident so the AI didn’t cause the accident. Numbers are bullshit.
link from the article https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-05-16/woman-gets-millions-after-getting-dragged-by-self-driving-taxi-in-san-francisco
People get jail time, what do we do with machines?
People get jail time, what do we do with machines?
Hold the manufacturers and operators (specifically for company operated) accountable?
The machine is the product, not the operator. We don’t jail classic cars either. We hold their operators accountable. The one in control. Self driving has a shift of who is in control - now “indirectly”.
Accountable for what killing a stray cat? Come on if you don’t want your cat to be hit keep it inside. I don’t get how people think it’s ok for a cat to wander. Even though it’s probably illegal.
Hold the manufacturers and operators (specifically for company operated) accountable?
if only that were the truth.
these companies will attempt to settle for bottom dollar or drag it out so long you’ll have to go homeless to pay the legal fees.
there is no justice left in the legal system. justice isn’t just blind anymore, she’s been decapitated.
So in conclusion, it’s not AI that’s the problem it’s the legal system?
why not both?
I believe these cars drive on the same roads all day, whereas people are likely to be driving in and out of areas these systems are not familiar with. I suppose a good comparison would be of a taxi driver that only operates in the same area as the driverless cars, if that exists.
here you dropped this
per capita
your figures (though I doubt them) don’t include the skew of driver vs driverless vehicles. of course driverless cars are 92% less likely to have an accident involving animals. that’s because driverless cars account for less than 1% of the entire vehicle population.
Ai doesn’t drink, get distracted, or smoke meth like the ml mods.
but it does randomly hallucinate.
the AI in cars is not the same as the AI in LLMs, it’s not programmed to guess its way to a conclusion.
that being said, it’s still far from perfect, and shouldn’t be on the road yet.
teslas make some pretty crazy assumptions (hallucinations).
ever see the one where it sees pedestrians in a cemetery?
or how about the accidents where they veer off the road because the lines were missing.
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The vote question would be better suited for the admin team and not mods, as we are just over this community.
Too many people being nasty in this thread, so we’ve removed the negative comments for rule 3.
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Before anyone starts to think there’s a good guy in this story:
some have taken upon themselves to honor KitKat in distinctly Silicon Valley-style ways. Zeidan (part of cats family) has released a memecoin honoring KitKat’s legacy, and also said that he was disappointed to see others launch their own imitation tokens in an attempt to profit off KitKat’s death.
He says he’s going to use the money to support local vets, but why don’t you just share some links to spca to donate directly, you’re providing nothing but a way for you to grift by taking the money through meme coins.
It’s not just a memecoin, it’s a movement!
Or even better: Be the “good guy” by giving your cat a happy, healthy, secure, and longer life by keeping them indoors. People hate to be told what to do, and some cats love it outside, but guess what? My dog would love to eat 10lbs of chocolate. We have to look out for their best interests. This obviously doesn’t mean don’t ever take them outside leashed or supervised, but the fact remains: indoor cats have a better, less stressful life, and don’t decimate local bird populations…
I always ask people how they would think about my Dog coming into their garden unsupervised, shitting and pissing all over the place, digging out flowers and fighting with other Dogs. I’m sure they would be less than thrilled and yet the same is okay for cats.
Not to mention the literally billions of birds that are killed every year by cats in the US.
Yes, this is the extra cherry on top that makes San Francisco look like a parody of itself here lol
Cat
“While our vehicle was stopped to pick up passengers, a nearby cat darted under our vehicle as it was pulling away,” a company spokesperson said.
I’m not super keen on robo-cars, because they’re being rushed out by corporations that want to start raking in the money while using the public to beta test their platform. but let’s be honest here, if the car was driven by a human, they almost certainly would have run over that cat too.
I would have stopped, because I’m not full of shit.
Mmmm. You’re taking “company spokesperson” at face value there.
Let’s be real though, a meeting of highly paid, highly skilled people came up with that response then it was sanitised through three more filters before reaching our eyes.
And for all that it doesn’t even make sense. Was the car stopped or was it pulling away?
maybe, but I’m also thinking about myself here. if it were me, would I have noticed the cat?
I don’t like admitting it, but the answer is almost certainly no, unless I happened to catch a glimpse of it in my mirror, which is what I would be looking at while pulling away from the curb. I think a robot-driven car should be able to watch all of its surroundings constantly, but I’m just a human and I can only watch one direction at a time.
Cripty is a classic bootlicker.
listen, it doesn’t matter how obsessed you are with me, I’m not going to sleep with you. I’m out of your league.
Says the guy who is here to defend corporations again.
The only league you are in is the bootlicker competition.
the irony of a liberal calling anyone a bootlicker. since you love landlords so much, you should start charging me rent for all the space I take up in your mind.
A bootlicking Anarchist!? You should be ashamed to be on that instance.
Go defend some more corps simp.
lol says the .worlder. you fit right into that instance. now go hide in the corner and obsess about me some more, you weirdo.
I’m against robotaxis but in this particular case the taxi was stopped and the cat darted under it as it started to move. A human driver would have likely hit it too.
Cats darting under a car are almost daily occurence where I live. There are numerous situations and we humans adapt quiet well.
I wonder how often this scenario happens in the car AIs training data?
cats don’t dart under moving vehicles. i reckon the statement is partially bullshit
cats, the animal most notorious for being contrary and doing dangerous things often enough that they were given the mythos of having “nine lives”, never dart under quiet electric moving vehicles?
I’ve had several times a cat has run out in the road in front of my car, and would have gone under if I hadn’t stopped quickly. Happily I’ve not hit one, few close calls though.
we had one do it once. broke the poor baby’s hips. survived tho
Human drivers have probably killed dozens of cats since this singular incident and not a peep. People are so fuckin stupid
Why are you limiting that just to cats? Many dogs have been hit. People too. I know they’re making a point about how human safety is prioritized over animal safety but, speaking as a human who has been hit by a car (responding officer actually had to do CPR on me while waiting for emergency services), humans are horrendous drivers and taking the responsibility of transportation out of human hands would be a good thing. People suck as drivers and getting hit really hurts ALOT!!!
Agreed. The vast majority of people have no business operating automobiles.
Rest in peace kitkat
“While our vehicle was stopped to pick up passengers, a nearby cat darted under our vehicle as it was pulling away”
I mean, it sucks, but it could’ve happened with a human driver as well… and likely has happened.
I have rode in a Waymo and it shows you all the things it detects on a screen… which includes humans and small animals. It’s not a perfect machine, but it probably is a better driver than a lot of people already and it’s learning every day.
I suppose this incident could get Waymo to put cameras/sensors beneath the car… something that regular car makers won’t think about.
But yeah, it should’ve detected the cat beforehand and waited for it to leave before driving off. Then again, the human passengers didn’t see it either.
Then again, the human passengers didn’t see it either.
The human passengers weren’t responsible for driving the vehicle, their lack of awareness is a feature of getting a taxi ride?
I feel for the cat but this would happen with a human driver too. No one is going to check under their car after picking up passengers. It’d add minutes to each stop and these people are paid by the mile and stop. Adding minutes or hours each day is money lost. So no one will do this.
I meant that the Waymo didn’t see it, neither did the passengers, so the cat could’ve been difficult to detect.
Not an excuse.
A small animal not being visible to a human or robotic driver is absolutely a viable excuse. It’s sad that the cat died, but it’s first an foremost the fault of the owners for letting their cat out.
I don’t like the tech bro world and I’m not a fan of driverless vehicles, but this didn’t happen because it was driverless and the outcome would be the same if their were a person behind the wheel.
You can definitely argue against cars being on the road in general, but I was on a bike ride with a buddy the other day, and he hit a squirrel that ran between us and then under his bike. Sometimes bad things happen especially when dealing with animals, and blaming a computer blindly is dumb AF.
I lost a beloved cat a few months ago that ran into the road. My security camera caught the whole thing.
“What if?” Is its own torment for us, but analytically, she simply wasn’t visible and there was nothing the driver could/should have done to prevent the horrible outcome.
There are in life no-win situations. It hurts, but it’s an adult realization. Cats go under cars to hide - to avoid being seen - and can’t grasp danger the same as humans.
Under- car sensors is a great idea and the kind of innovation required for this tech to reach universal adoption. Waymo is already safer than human drivers IMO but let’s keep going until it’s significantly safer with verifiable data and capabilities humans cannot have. And we have to address its connection to big tech for “safety under fascism” purposes.
I mean, it sucks for the cat and the neighborhood, I’m glad that where I live there are a few very friendly outdoor cats and I’ve always seen people nail the brakes to avoid them the few times they cross the road.
I also understand that autonomous cars kind of need more work, but real drivers also really suck at driving. I wonder if the ire here is more at “who do we blame if no driver”
Also also, I wonder if electric cars are going to cause a lot more issues for outdoor animals who to some extend get trained to listen for a Hrududu which the electric motors don’t make.
People who keep their kids inside but let their pets play in traffic are psychopaths.
I know what I said.
Who told you that cat was someone’s pet?
The linked article, like the person claimed.
“We send our deepest sympathies to the cat’s owner and the community who knew and loved him"
Picture of cat shows a collar, tag, and bell. It’s a pet.
The linked Article doesn’t say anything about any pets. The quote you used is from Waymo, who didn’t know anything about the cat besides the fact that their robot car ran it over.
The tag in the picture is a rabies tag, not an ownership tag. The collar is to hold the rabies tag, and the bell is attached to the collar.
The article has quotes from several community members grieving the loss of the cat, yet not from any supposed owner and doesn’t even mention any owner. The cat is very obviously a local stray.
My quote is from the linked article.
Doubling down and re-stating your claims again as fact won’t make reality change.
Nowhere in that article does it say anything about the cat being a pet, nor does it state that the cat has an owner. It references an outside statement from Waymo where they, like you, appear to assume the cat has an owner without anything to indicate that, but nobody who spoke to The Guardian for that article said a single thing about the cat being a pet or having an owner.
The cat was very obviously a local stray. Doubling down and insisting there’s an owner without any proof of an owner existing in that article will not make reality change. Unless you can find in that article where it says the cat was a pet, or identifies an owner, you’re just making things up.
The linked article…
Did you ask some AI to summarise the article? Because there’s no mention of it being a pet cat.
Did you read it? Or did you just ctrl+f “pet”? Because it specifically mentions the cat having an owner.
Nowhere in the article does it mention the cat having an owner, besides the statement released by Waymo.
So it doesn’t besides the point where it does.
The article is relaying information from an authoritative group of people who are informing the article, (those who know the cat and are being interviewed for the purpose of this article) and Waymo (Who is unfamiliar with the cat besides the point that they’ve confirmed they ran it over, and did not speak to the Guardian for this article).
There is no mention of an owner from that authoritative group of people.
The letter sent out by Waymo is not an authoritative source of information for this cat, nor is it asserting that the cat does in fact have an owner. It’s just an uninformed assumption by a third party with no first hand knowledge of this cat in order to cover a base because it’s boilerplate. An owner is mentioned in it for the same purpose as the phrase “To whom it may concern”
You have got to work on your media literacy.
There are no pets mentioned in the linked article.
“We send our deepest sympathies to the cat’s owner”
Did you even read it?
Yes I read it, there is no owner mentioned in that article, and it was very obviously a stray cat.
Your quote is just an example of the fact that Waymo has a canned, boilerplate template ready to go for when they run over an animal.
Yes I read that. That’s the boilerplate statement from the company that is obviously factually incorrect.
Work on your comprehension skills, it will help you in life.
Aged like milk
If you let your cat roam around outside, you don’t care about it and don’t deserve it. And if it gets killed, it’s entirely your fault.
Your cat
Whose cat was it again? Whose fault is it?
I wish people were as outraged about people getting killed by human drivers. The safety record of these cars has been no less than stellar until now.
The safety record of these cars has been no less than stellar until now.
Typo?
Parent is saying self driving cars have had a stellar record up until now.
Im gonna be real with you. In the lords year 2025 I dont give a flying fuck about more than most people but I do care about every cat. I’d imagine this is a common sentiment.
not every human is down with kissing the homies, but every cat i’ve met is
Cat’s shouldn’t be left outside in the first place, because of situations like this.
*“Cat’s shouldn’t be left outside because they’ll be crushed by a vehicle, eaten by coyotes, catch a deadly disease or purposely killed by shitty humans.”
I can never understand why this is so often a hot take other than “it’s natural”, which is dubious at best. Leaving a cat outside by itself, without supervision and a harness is irresponsible and stupid. If you or your family do that, in a city, then make sure to have some “missing cat” posters pre-printed and always keep the picture up to date because that cat will likely not live a full life. Kindly keep any anecdotal evidence to the contrary to yourself, it stands for nothing.
Maybe if you lived on a farm and you wanted it to keep the mice population down, but then there’s the environmental factor of how cats kill a lot of birds which stresses an already stressed population (and is maybe detrimental to crop health re. insects).
/rant
Whose responsibility would it be to keep the cat inside?
Fully agree, this not only highlights the dangers of driverless vehicles but also highlights the fact cats shouldn’t be allowed outside.
When you infantilize an entire species and see them as unworthy of having basic freedom. Hopefully one day you have your “am I the baddy” moment.
They ARE basically toddlers. They are dumb animals that need supervision in an urban environment, if you don’t want to do that you don’t deserve to be a pet owner. Full stop.
I don’t desire to be a pet owner, but I am friends with lots of cats.
